Discussion:
Is Mojolicious a sensible long-term choice for web services?
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Alois
2016-03-22 12:24:10 UTC
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I am responsible for a large and active website based on CGI and perl
scripts. Over the years, this has grown into a little 'zoo' of CGI scripts.

We face the task to consolidate this into a more modern and more
maintainable web application.

The choice of tools is not easy.

We like Perl, and are quite good with it (more than 16 years experience,
about 100k lines of Perl code). But younger programmers are not much drawn
to it.
We are also good with C.

This is why we look at Mojo.

We can consider switching to a totally different environment, where
attractive Web Fraameworks and related development tools are available,
like Java-based (a lot of choices), Python (Django seems in the front),
Javascript (Ember.js ?)

An important point:
- will it be around and maintained 5 year, 10 years, 20 years from now?
- will there be maintainers and developers for it?

How does Mojolicious stand in this respect? It seems to depend on a single
man, Sebastian Riedel. Will Mojo die when he turns elswehere?
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Ben van Staveren
2016-03-22 14:40:13 UTC
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Personal opinion; it won't die, and I'd say it's an excellent choice if you
want the freedom of doing things how you want, Mojo doesn't often get in
the way, and if it does its often for a real good reason
Post by Alois
I am responsible for a large and active website based on CGI and perl
scripts. Over the years, this has grown into a little 'zoo' of CGI scripts.
We face the task to consolidate this into a more modern and more
maintainable web application.
The choice of tools is not easy.
We like Perl, and are quite good with it (more than 16 years experience,
about 100k lines of Perl code). But younger programmers are not much drawn
to it.
We are also good with C.
This is why we look at Mojo.
We can consider switching to a totally different environment, where
attractive Web Fraameworks and related development tools are available,
like Java-based (a lot of choices), Python (Django seems in the front),
Javascript (Ember.js ?)
- will it be around and maintained 5 year, 10 years, 20 years from now?
- will there be maintainers and developers for it?
How does Mojolicious stand in this respect? It seems to depend on a single
man, Sebastian Riedel. Will Mojo die when he turns elswehere?
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Sebastian Riedel
2016-03-22 16:02:10 UTC
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Post by Alois
- will it be around and maintained 5 year, 10 years, 20 years from now?
- will there be maintainers and developers for it?
How does Mojolicious stand in this respect? It seems to depend on a single
man, Sebastian Riedel. Will Mojo die when he turns elswehere?
You don't really have to guess, this happened once before with
Catalyst, like 10 years ago. It's not as actively maintained as it
used to be, but still around.
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Sebastian Riedel
http://mojolicio.us
http://github.com/kraih
http://twitter.com/kraih
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sri
2016-03-22 22:01:33 UTC
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Post by Sebastian Riedel
You don't really have to guess, this happened once before with
Catalyst, like 10 years ago.
That said, i have no intention of leaving the project anytime soon.
Releases might have been less frequent recently (compared to previous
years), but that's simply because the project has stabilized and there's
less work to do. The few big features remaining to be implemented, like
HTTP/2 support, are so big that they are not doable with volunteers, and
will require sponsors.

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sebastian
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Ed W
2016-03-23 11:36:07 UTC
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Hi
Post by Alois
The choice of tools is not easy.
We like Perl, and are quite good with it (more than 16 years
experience, about 100k lines of Perl code). But younger programmers
are not much drawn to it.
We are also good with C.
This is why we look at Mojo.
I think these opinions quickly can become overly passionate... However,
I think we can summarise that in general the trend is that web stacks
are generally popular and developers like them. They remove a lot of the
repeated work in developing an app

I think opinions then tend to be around whether people want "full stack"
or just a skeleton. Plus some philosophical differences on how you
construct your MVC, etc.

I presume anyone on this list is going to be a Mojo fan, so feedback
should be positive! I personally use mojolicious in production for a
small project and like how flexible it is. There isn't too much "magic"
so that the structure seems mostly obvious to me (contrast say with some
huge frameworks like Rails where you have a lot of magic, especially if
you need to actually understand the details of some rendering path).

Most of my critiques would boil down to some feature that *I* felt was
missing, and others would be about some unique requirement that *I* have
which would feel tricky to me because my perl fu isn't strong enough (ie
they would be "opinion" criticisms only). So basically, Mojo seems more
than good enough to build both small and huge projects around, any
complaints will be small things that you can build yourself.

Also, I think perl + mojo is the best (of the scripting type languages)
at avoiding "callback hell". It's not totally avoidable, but we have a
lot of tools (mojo + anyevent) to keep it mostly under control.
Post by Alois
We can consider switching to a totally different environment, where
attractive Web Fraameworks and related development tools are available,
like Java-based (a lot of choices), Python (Django seems in the
front), Javascript (Ember.js ?)
Dunno, it's only a datapoint, but for me the "new hotness" is Elixir. I
like the way the language "thinks", and in many ways I find it quite
compatible with perl (I think perl never totally embraced OO and hence a
lot of code is kind of partly OO and partly functional. In fact there is
quite a lot of functional style thinking in many perl projects)

The philosophy of web dev in Elixir is that the language easily supports
even millions of (green) threads, so you can write your code in a
"blocking style" and never worry about blocking other threads. If you
are tempted I would recommend Joe Armstrong's thesis paper, this gives
you insight on why the language "thinks" in the way it does. Examples
of successes in Erlang/Elixir might include Whatsapp and there was a non
trivial multi user chat app demo'd recently running 2 million
connections to a single server.

Again, just a datapoint, but I'm planning to move my Rails projects to
Elixir, but no plans to move the Mojo stuff (in fact we will probably
increase the number of mojolicious apps, mainly for lightweight,
compartmentalised type deployments)


Good luck!

Ed W
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Alois
2016-03-23 19:43:11 UTC
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Thank you!
Hi
..
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